26.5.08

Clases a medias

Por Jorge Paredes
El Dominical, El Comercio, Lima, 25/05/08


Diálogo con Orlando Plaza a propósito del libro Las clases sociales en el Perú. Visiones y trayectorias.

-En el Perú las clases sociales han estado muy vinculadas a tipos económicos y raciales (indios, mestizos, criollos) y luego, a mitad del siglo XX, aparecieron otros componentes sociales, culturales, ¿cómo analizarlas desde una perspectiva contemporánea?

-En términos generales las clases sociales son expresión de la desigualdad y en el primer mundo están directamente vinculadas a la transformación económica, política y cultural de esas sociedades. Ahí las clases se entienden mejor porque existen economías nacionales, mercados internos, que permiten relaciones de interdependencia funcional entre los diferentes grupos. En el Perú eso no sucede por eso no podemos trasladar aquí esa estructura de clases sin un manejo empírico y una renovación conceptual. Lo primero que tenemos es un mercado interno muy débil y esto repercute en los lazos de interdependencia funcional. El 75 % de la PEA se ubica en micros y pequeñas empresas, como trabajador independiente o como trabajador familiar no remunerado. ¿Qué quiere decir esto? Que es gente que trabaja por su cuenta y los lazos con otro tipo de organizaciones no son fuertes. Lo segundo es que el mismo estado nación no ha sido bien constituido ni bien configurado, y muchas veces su legitimación ha sido puesta en duda y los políticos no han sabido leer cuáles son los problemas que la nación les demanda. Por ejemplo, lo que está pidiendo la nación es orden, pero no en el sentido represivo que entiende el Estado, sino en términos de libertad, crecimiento, redistribución. Entonces, los lazos políticos tampoco son muy fuertes y ocurre lo que dice un autor inglés, Anthony Giddens, que las sociedades de capitalismo avanzado son sociedades de clases porque están articuladas, en cambio las nuestras son sociedades divididas en clases sin mayor articulación. En cuanto al tema de la raza, este es un problema cultural. Una misma persona en el Perú puede ser considerada blanca en una circunstancia, mestiza en otra e indio en otra. La raza no es el fenotipo, sino una definición cultural que viene de atrás cuando en la colonia nos dividieron en república de indios y república de españoles, y a cada grupo se le asignó deberes y derechos distintos. Después se eliminaron las trabas legales, pero el imaginario con el cual nos habíamos organizado permaneció, y eso nos ha cortado permanentemente en muchos campos.

-Nos ha cortado los circuitos como sociedad

-Sí, porque de repente por fijarnos demasiado en este componente no percibimos otros circuitos económicos y políticos que se están creando y que nos pueden ayudar a superar este imaginario de superioridad e inferioridad basado en la definición cultural de la raza. Todavía estamos en ese proceso de abrirnos a la modernidad.

-Actualmente se habla de movilidad social, sobre todo a partir de la emergencia de grupos antes vistos como marginales y que ahora han ingresado al mercado y la política, ¿cuál es la magnitud de este fenómeno?

-Es necesario hacer un estudio empírico de las distintas situaciones urbano-rurales de nuestro país para poder comprender mejor esto. Según los estudios hechos por Martín Benavides en los grupos altos y bajos hay muy poca movilidad, lo cual indica que se están perpetuando las diferencias. En cambio, en el sector intermedio sí hay mucha movilidad. Esto se debe mirar con entusiasmo, pero también con sensatez. Estamos encontrando caminos, pero hay que acordarnos que casi el 50 por ciento de la población peruana sigue en niveles de pobreza.

-Leyendo el libro encuentro una frase interesante: "no somos un país de clases medias, sino de clases a medias", ¿cómo se explica esto?

-Justamente, cuando uno habla de clases sociales está hablando de relaciones más o menos claras, basadas en un determinado tipo de aparato productivo, en una determinada organización estatal, con burocracia efectiva y capacidad de proyección, etc. En el Perú si las instituciones y las organizaciones oficiales funcionan a medias, entonces tenemos articulaciones a medias y la gente va viendo cómo se acomoda en el camino, de acuerdo a las circunstancias. Y esta tradición es republicana, si no, recordemos la clase del guano, del salitre, del petróleo, de la anchoveta, etc.

-¿Y podemos dividir nuestras clases en A, B, C, D?

-No, no. Bueno, el término clase social es polivalente, y esa organización de arriba abajo en torno a los ingresos, la vivienda, etc., es lo que algunos autores llaman clases de sentido común. Es simplemente una organización para hacer marketing político o de consumo, pero no explica más. No ve las relaciones entre los distintos grupos, las orientaciones, las posibilidades de acción, las formas de votación, los intereses disímiles, la vida social y la forma en que esta articulada.

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